Legion in We Were Soldiers?

#1
Are these Legionnaires? I would assume so because of the Kepi Blanc, but movies have been known to get details wrong. What does everyone think?

This movie is always a tear jerker for me when the French and the Americans die. The sound track and the action all set the tone very well for a dramatic battle movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU-RutTOpgA
 

Fin109

Active Member
#3
I don't wanna be rude, but sounds to me like you wanna say it's perfectly fine when other people die in the movies?
Like Chinese are Russians.
Well... don't you know... Russians... they're evil! The spread of communism and... ah... healthcare! I only joke.
 

dusaboss

Hyper Active Member
#4
Sorry. My mistake. You meant on specific moment in that movie. Are you didnt? :) Can't tell

Well... don't you know... Russians... they're evil! The spread of communism and... ah... healthcare! I only joke.
True! In most American movies. I even heard some real life stories from WW2 about misbehavior of red army.
 
#5
I don't wanna be rude, but sounds to me like you wanna say it's perfectly fine when other people die in the movies?
Like Chinese are Russians.
Depends what side they're fighting for. You know there are people from all around the world serving in the Legion. Doesn't matter where they come from, if they fight for the Legion, they are my ally.

I'm an American. Russia has been my country's enemy for decades now, and it's not over yet. I don't know how France's relationship with Russia is, but that doesn't matter. I will try to join Legion and fight who they tell me to fight. And I have plenty of Russian friends too, but they are not army

The Russian army and Chinese Army and Vietcong, all were bad groups of people who did bad things. Would I shed a tear for a dying Nazi? NO. Nor would I shed a tear for a dead Vietcong, or Taliban, or Japanese soldier in WW2. In history, there have been pretty clearly defined lines of who is the "good guy" and who is the "bad guy"

In this movie, the Legion are trying to hold Vietnam. They are there on orders. the Vietcong attack and kill them all. They were fighting for communism so that makes them the bad ones

The Americans come to stop the spread of communism towards Australia. And we pretty much succeeded
 

Fin109

Active Member
#6
Sorry. My mistake. You meant on specific moment in that movie. Are you didnt? :) Can't tell



True! In most American movies. I even heard some real life stories from WW2 about misbehavior of red army.
That's the general sentiment amongst certain folks today, not just movies. Tend to be a bit older, however. I think its the same thing, like how older people (obviously not just older folks) in ex eastern bloc countries like things back before '91 or so. Ive at least heard from many poles that the older generation of them will look back with nostalgia. Sorry, I'm fairly fascinated with eastern European and balkan history pre fall of the Soviet Union. As for the Red Army committing bad things, I tend to be wary. You will hear bad from all sides. I'm sure the Russians say the same things about the U.S military, or at least did. Its all relative. Especially during times of mass conscription do these things tend to happen.
 
#7
Soldiers from every army in history have been good/bad and disciplined/lax

It's up to our generation to be better when we join up. Respect a fallen enemy, do not harm civilians, etc


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#8
As now studied as textbook method of dealing with communist insurgents in the Far East. Location Malaya as studied by Sandhurst, West Point, St.Cyr and the RM officer School. (The latter a separate officer school.)

PM Harold Wilson declined to send troops to Viet Nam. He advised the Americans to employ our tactics which were so successful in Malaya when the communists wanted to take over. America claimed there would be a Domino effect if the VC won. There was not.

The military strategy under General Templar was superb and the placing of non combatant civilians in well guarded secure areas worked well. Curfews were imposed. Food and supply lines to the CTs' (Communist Terrorists) were cut off and the SAS and RM commandos maintained jungle patrols lasting several weeks kept the CTs' on the move. OPs' were maintained and CT MSRs' ambushed.

After a few years it was all over and there was no Domino effect for other countries. America however believed wrongly that ground troops and massive air power would prevail. Sadly this crass strategy led to loss of life and unease/unrest at home with a disillusioned public.

In my opinion the American Military were let down by their Generals such as 'Body Count' Westmorland and their politicians who never really assessed the situation correctly.
 
#9
Depends what side they're fighting for. You know there are people from all around the world serving in the Legion. Doesn't matter where they come from, if they fight for the Legion, they are my ally.

I'm an American. Russia has been my country's enemy for decades now, and it's not over yet. I don't know how France's relationship with Russia is, but that doesn't matter. I will try to join Legion and fight who they tell me to fight. And I have plenty of Russian friends too, but they are not army

The Russian army and Chinese Army and Vietcong, all were bad groups of people who did bad things. Would I shed a tear for a dying Nazi? NO. Nor would I shed a tear for a dead Vietcong, or Taliban, or Japanese soldier in WW2. In history, there have been pretty clearly defined lines of who is the "good guy" and who is the "bad guy"

In this movie, the Legion are trying to hold Vietnam. They are there on orders. the Vietcong attack and kill them all. They were fighting for communism so that makes them the bad ones

The Americans come to stop the spread of communism towards Australia. And we pretty much succeeded
There was and would have been no domino effect. The wars started as a self contained nationalist movement...initially inspired by the desire to kick out the French, then the Japanese, then the French again, then the US...their primary objective was to rule themselves without outside interference. In retrospect both the South and North had huge issues...the South wasn't a democracy at all and was horribly corrupt and the North turned more to hardline communism as time went on after initially starting more as just a native independence movement. Now Vietnam is doing fairly well and is less oppressive than China and didn't implode like Cambodia.

We should never have gotten involved as Vietnam has ZERO ability to project power across the ocean...the worst they could do it invade Laos and Cambodia for a short time, which wasn't even worth it to them and didn't last long. It was a huge waste of American lives and Vietnamese lives. Vietnam should have been granted independence immediately after WW2 when the Japanese left. The wars were a complete cluster **** by both the French and the U.S.. It made for great heroics and a waste of humanity.
 

Fin109

Active Member
#10
The original question: no, the Legion use a green beret, in the movie they use red beret... but red beret isnt for the parachutes from french army? So the insignia is wrong, because they should be like the insignia from 2rep right?
A little confusing why some are using beret and others kepi blanc...I am stil trying to understand when you use one or another actually
I think the movie just is a bit off in the end. Lots of movies aren't very historically accurate unless that's their aim... Sadly.
 
#11
The original question: no, the Legion use a green beret, in the movie they use red beret... but red beret isnt for the parachutes from french army? So the insignia is wrong, because they should be like the insignia from 2rep right?
A little confusing why some are using beret and others kepi blanc...I am stil trying to understand when you use one or another actually
That's the part that confused me, too
 

dusaboss

Hyper Active Member
#12
In history, there have been pretty clearly defined lines of who is the "good guy" and who is the "bad guy"
Yeah, but in reality line is not so clear. I understand how American guy can more easily identify himself with other Americans than with Russians or Chinese.
That is case with me to. I grow up more with American culture than with my own.
Still i don't think that much generalization is good. Sure u should prefer your country over Russia, i do :)

You was Heavy Metal vocalist? Cool !
 

dusaboss

Hyper Active Member
#13
That's the general sentiment amongst certain folks today, not just movies. Tend to be a bit older, however. I think its the same thing, like how older people (obviously not just older folks) in ex eastern bloc countries like things back before '91 or so. Ive at least heard from many poles that the older generation of them will look back with nostalgia. Sorry, I'm fairly fascinated with eastern European and balkan history pre fall of the Soviet Union. As for the Red Army committing bad things, I tend to be wary. You will hear bad from all sides. I'm sure the Russians say the same things about the U.S military, or at least did. Its all relative. Especially during times of mass conscription do these things tend to happen.
Things that i heard are from older folks in my region and i strongly believe that is true. They have nice words for passing US troops, even for Germans and not so good for Russians. I don't hate them, but they had some serious problems with discipline.

We had the good fortune that we found are self on the western side of the Iron Curtain because of Tito's fight with Stalin and who knows what more.
I do not believe that nations on the east side of the wire are much nostalgic for those years.
 

Peter Lyderik

Hyper Active Member
#15
The French troops in Groupe Mobile 100 from wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mang_Yang_Pass, also mention of the film. No troops from the Legion.

Units in the G.M.100 included:
Korea Regiment, consisting of the 1st and 2nd Korea Battalions formed from the elite veteran UN Bataillon de Corée.
The Bataillon de Marche of the 43rd Colonial Infantry Regiment.
520th TDKQ (Tiểu-đoàn Khinh-quân), a light battalion from the Vietnamese National Army as part of An Khe garrison.
2nd Group of 10th Colonial Artillery Regiment.
(less) 3rd Squadron of 5th “Royal Polandâ€￾ Armored Cavalry Regiment - these were in reserve in Pleiku when GM 100 left An Khe
 
#16
The French troops in Groupe Mobile 100 from wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mang_Yang_Pass, also mention of the film. No troops from the Legion.

Units in the G.M.100 included:
Korea Regiment, consisting of the 1st and 2nd Korea Battalions formed from the elite veteran UN Bataillon de Corée.
The Bataillon de Marche of the 43rd Colonial Infantry Regiment.
520th TDKQ (Tiểu-đoàn Khinh-quân), a light battalion from the Vietnamese National Army as part of An Khe garrison.
2nd Group of 10th Colonial Artillery Regiment.
(less) 3rd Squadron of 5th “Royal Polandâ€￾ Armored Cavalry Regiment - these were in reserve in Pleiku when GM 100 left An Khe

There is a substantial part of "Street Without Joy" dedicated to this Groupe Mobile. Goes into detail about its origin, its operations, and its end. It really was very interesting.

As to the previous discussion on Vietnam and communism and all; I think it was Kilcullen said that (paraphrasing) Malaya was "won" not through the application of some "special COIN tactics" (though COIN tactics were obviously necessary), but because the British started to implement the policies which the insurgents were using to rally the population, so that only hardliners really had any reason to continue fighting (provided the British left in the end). As to Vietnam, France and then the US after them tried to implement the obvious COIN tactics (destroy morale of the enemy and its support among the population, secure rear logistics, lots of intelligence and counterintelligence (specially from natives), gain support from the population, isolation of the enemy like fish from water like strategic hamlet program, etc), but they couldn't have brought themselves to implement the necessary policies to really gain the required support, too much vested interest in status quo. Mm, just my opinion, really agree with Nickfury.

As to the movie, it isn't the legion, as Peter Lyderik pointed out. And it really isn't very good at all, the movie; half-decent action sequences and sloppy sentimentality, me thinks.
 
#17
There is a substantial part of "Street Without Joy" dedicated to this Groupe Mobile. Goes into detail about its origin, its operations, and its end. It really was very interesting.

As to the previous discussion on Vietnam and communism and all; I think it was Kilcullen said that (paraphrasing) Malaya was "won" not through the application of some "special COIN tactics" (though COIN tactics were obviously necessary), but because the British started to implement the policies which the insurgents were using to rally the population, so that only hardliners really had any reason to continue fighting (provided the British left in the end). As to Vietnam, France and then the US after them tried to implement the obvious COIN tactics (destroy morale of the enemy and its support among the population, secure rear logistics, lots of intelligence and counterintelligence (specially from natives), gain support from the population, isolation of the enemy like fish from water like strategic hamlet program, etc), but they couldn't have brought themselves to implement the necessary policies to really gain the required support, too much vested interest in status quo. Mm, just my opinion, really agree with Nickfury.

As to the movie, it isn't the legion, as Peter Lyderik pointed out. And it really isn't very good at all, the movie; half-decent action sequences and sloppy sentimentality, me thinks.
Yeah they would have had to push massive reform and create a true Vietnamese led democratic government with a set end goal for the exit of the Western power, either the French or the US...they could have set it up, helped to nurture and grow it and provide advice and support etc and ended up with favorable trade and security agreements in the end. They needed to co-opt many of the goals of the Viet Minh/North Vietnamese as was done in Malaysia as per Dan98's information.
Good post!
 
#18
Hey I love that movie ahaha. It's one of my favorite tear jerking war movies. I think about my mom during the mortuary affairs scene and it makes me tear up. Not that it will stop me from proceeding along this path, and it didn't stop me from joining the Marine Corps
 

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