Catholic Church in World War II

Cernunnos

Active Member
Pro Member
#1
I think that the Pope (current at the time) even supported Hitler. So I wouldn't really consider that as some big plus.

As for a Napoléon “Vive le Empereur !â€￾ Am I spelling that right Rapace? (Please don't tell me “ask your Josephâ€￾ [emoji4] [emoji3] :))
In Rome alone, around 4,500 people found refuge in churches, convents, monasteries and boarding schools.
In Warsaw, the All Saints Church sheltered Jews, even though the penalty for such an act is death.
Several aides of the Pope acknowledged that they had worked to rescue Jews on his direct instructions.
They included two future popes – John XXIII and Paul VI. Pius XII himself sheltered Jews both in the Vatican itself and at Castel Gandolfo.

On the 14th of March 1937, Pope Pius XI issued Mit Brennender Sorge (“With Burning Anxietyâ€￾) written in German, condemning Nazism.
“Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the state, and divinises them to an idolatrous level, perverts an order of the world created by God,â€￾

Pius XII did what no one else did to save Jewish lives during the war. He knew what was happening to the Jews.
At the time, most were in denial, including a British diplomat who wrote of “these whining Jewsâ€￾.
Neither Britain nor America made it easy for Jews to escape into exile – the Kindertransport was a blessed exception.

The myth of Pope Pius XII being a supporter of Nazism is due to a rather slanderous play, published in 1963 by Rolf Hochhuth, called The Deputy which blamed Pius XII for the Holocaust.
Hochhuth claimed it was historically accurate and the play was premièred in West Berlin and performed by the Royal Shakespeare Company in England and America.
 

SnafuSmite

Active Member
#2
In Rome alone, around 4,500 people found refuge in churches, convents, monasteries and boarding schools.
In Warsaw, the All Saints Church sheltered Jews, even though the penalty for such an act is death.
Several aides of the Pope acknowledged that they had worked to rescue Jews on his direct instructions.
They included two future popes – John XXIII and Paul VI. Pius XII himself sheltered Jews both in the Vatican itself and at Castel Gandolfo.

On the 14th of March 1937, Pope Pius XI issued Mit Brennender Sorge (“With Burning Anxietyâ€￾) written in German, condemning Nazism.
“Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the state, and divinises them to an idolatrous level, perverts an order of the world created by God,â€￾

Pius XII did what no one else did to save Jewish lives during the war. He knew what was happening to the Jews.
At the time, most were in denial, including a British diplomat who wrote of “these whining Jewsâ€￾.
Neither Britain nor America made it easy for Jews to escape into exile – the Kindertransport was a blessed exception.

The myth of Pope Pius XII being a supporter of Nazism is due to a rather slanderous play, published in 1963 by Rolf Hochhuth, called The Deputy which blamed Pius XII for the Holocaust.
Hochhuth claimed it was historically accurate and the play was premièred in West Berlin and performed by the Royal Shakespeare Company in England and America.
The Pope also blessed the guns and tanks of the Wehrmacht...
 

Cernunnos

Active Member
Pro Member
#3
The Pope also blessed the guns and tanks of the Wehrmacht...
A rather poor rebuttal, it isn't hard to imagine what would have happened if the Pope had taken sides in the conflict.
Openly side with the allies and the Catholic Church wouldn't have been able to save as many lives as it did, during the war.

The old Roman Pontifical contains a blessing of weapons, but the text of the blessing assumes that they will be used in defence of the Church or of widows and orphans.
So it wouldn't be too far off the mark to assume he was hoping to encourage the more pius of the Germans to show a little compassion when doing their duty.
http://www.liturgialatina.org/pontificale/081.htm
 

dusaboss

Hyper Active Member
#4
In Rome alone, around 4,500 people found refuge in churches, convents, monasteries and boarding schools.
In Warsaw, the All Saints Church sheltered Jews, even though the penalty for such an act is death.
Several aides of the Pope acknowledged that they had worked to rescue Jews on his direct instructions.
They included two future popes – John XXIII and Paul VI. Pius XII himself sheltered Jews both in the Vatican itself and at Castel Gandolfo.

On the 14th of March 1937, Pope Pius XI issued Mit Brennender Sorge (“With Burning Anxietyâ€￾) written in German, condemning Nazism.
“Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the state, and divinises them to an idolatrous level, perverts an order of the world created by God,â€￾

Pius XII did what no one else did to save Jewish lives during the war. He knew what was happening to the Jews.
At the time, most were in denial, including a British diplomat who wrote of “these whining Jewsâ€￾.
Neither Britain nor America made it easy for Jews to escape into exile – the Kindertransport was a blessed exception.

The myth of Pope Pius XII being a supporter of Nazism is due to a rather slanderous play, published in 1963 by Rolf Hochhuth, called The Deputy which blamed Pius XII for the Holocaust.
Hochhuth claimed it was historically accurate and the play was premièred in West Berlin and performed by the Royal Shakespeare Company in England and America.
Yep, only the Jews suffered during WW2. All other nations-religions had a great time. There is no question that they were hit the most, but how many Slavs, Gypsies and others suffered alongside Jews in concentration camps? I guess not all victims have same value in media (hmmm why that could be??)

As for “Neither Britain nor America made it easy for Jews to escape into exileâ€￾, I guess that highly depended on the size of the wallet of particular Jew. My live experience tells me that vast majority of Jews we seeing in pics of conc-camp are not exactly the most wealthy ones.
 
#5
The attitude of the Catholic Church towards Nazism was ‘ambivalent’. This can be understood before the war, when the vicious dimensions of this ideology hadn't yet been taken to their full ‘potential’. After all, the strongly anti-communist stance taken by the Nazis was regarded with some sympathy by a portion of the Catholics. The wealthy German bourgeoisie had the same ambivalent attitude. They didn't like the man Hitler, who didn't belong to their cast, but they liked his anti-communist positions. One must remember that in the 30s the DKP (Deutsche Kommunist Partei) was a strong political force among the working class.
However after the war, the attitude of some (minority) fractions of the Catholic Church was much less excusable. They gave shelter in monasteries or convents to people who had openly been Nazis or Nazi-sympathisers during the war and/or helped them to flee Europe and start a new life (mainly in South America).
Re France only, Joseph Darnand, head of the Milice (a paramilitary force set up by the Vichy government to fight against the Resistance) was briefly hidden in a convent in Italy before being arrested (later tried, sentenced to death and executed).
Paul Touvier, another member of the Milice, escaped the Justice for many years, living in various Catholic missions in France.
Same thing for Marcel Déat, head of a collaborationist party during WW2, who escaped to Italy at the end of the war and lived there in clandestinity until his death, protected by some catholic institutions.
There are many more examples, but I'm not going to write an essay here.
 

Cernunnos

Active Member
Pro Member
#6
Yep, only the Jews suffered during WW2. All other nations-religions had a great time. There is no question that they were hit the most, but how many Slavs, Gypsies and others suffered alongside Jews in concentration camps? I guess not all victims have same value in media (hmmm why that could be??)

As for “Neither Britain nor America made it easy for Jews to escape into exileâ€￾, I guess that highly depended on the size of the wallet of particular Jew. My live experience tells me that vast majority of Jews we seeing in pics of conc-camp are not exactly the most wealthy ones.

I never said anything like that and I would appreciate it if you didn't try and put words in my mouth.
I only said that the Catholic Church and the Pope at the time weren't sympathising with the Nazis.
Then I provided evidence to prove why they didn't and couldn't, as an organisation, sympathise with the Nazis.

Being rich would have made it easy to escape but only if you escaped early enough.
The Nazi party didn't much care if the Jew was rich because the Jew was going to die anyway.
Before Britain and the United States got pulled into a war against Germany they were refusing to help Jews that wanted to escape because they didn't want a war with Germany and helping the Jews escape would have annoyed the Germans quite a bit.



The attitude of the Catholic Church towards Nazism was ‘ambivalent’. This can be understood before the war, when the vicious dimensions of this ideology hadn't yet been taken to their full ‘potential’. After all, the strongly anti-communist stance taken by the Nazis was regarded with some sympathy by a portion of the Catholics. The wealthy German bourgeoisie had the same ambivalent attitude. They didn't like the man Hitler, who didn't belong to their cast, but they liked his anti-communist positions. One must remember that in the 30s the DKP (Deutsche Kommunist Partei) was a strong political force among the working class.
However after the war, the attitude of some (minority) fractions of the Catholic Church was much less excusable. They gave shelter in monasteries or convents to people who had openly been Nazis or Nazi-sympathisers during the war and/or helped them to flee Europe and start a new life (mainly in South America).
Re France only, Joseph Darnand, head of the Milice (a paramilitary force set up by the Vichy government to fight against the Resistance) was briefly hidden in a convent in Italy before being arrested (later tried, sentenced to death and executed).
Paul Touvier, another member of the Milice, escaped the Justice for many years, living in various Catholic missions in France.
Same thing for Marcel Déat, head of a collaborationist party during WW2, who escaped to Italy at the end of the war and lived there in clandestinity until his death, protected by some catholic institutions.
There are many more examples, but I'm not going to write an essay here.
The Catholic Church isn't going to turn away anyone seeking sanctuary.
Nazi or Communist.
Black or white.
There's nothing to excuse because they didn't do anything to be excused for. Forgiveness is a central tenant to Catholicism.

"The Catholic priests and prelates who helped spring the Nazi bolt-hole were part of an organization called the Vatican Relief Commission (Pontificia Commissione di Assistenza, or PCA).
They supplied invaluable, indeed crucial aid in sheltering Nazi war criminals, SS men, and ordinary Nazis.
Steinacher tells us that the PCA viewed itself as a sort of papal mercy program for National Socialists and Fascists.
Working closely with the Red Cross, the PCA would issue the crucial letters of recommendation for those seeking travel documents.
The Red Cross, the organization that supplied the critical documents, was overwhelmed with the sheer number of POWs and the larger humanitarian emergency.
As a result, it never screened those seeking travel documents."


Reading this, they didn't just help "war-criminals" but regular soldiers who simply fought for their country.
 
#7
The Catholic Church isn't going to turn away anyone seeking sanctuary.
Nazi or Communist.
Black or white.
There's nothing to excuse because they didn't do anything to be excused for. Forgiveness is a central tenant to Catholicism. (..)
Yes, that was the excuse given by the Catholic Church, when questioned about their attitude. It may convince Catholic believers (although this caused a case of conscience to many of them), but for all others, this protection offerred to Nazis or Nazi-sympathisers trying to escape justice after WW2 was simply unacceptable.
 

SnafuSmite

Active Member
#8
A rather poor rebuttal, it isn't hard to imagine what would have happened if the Pope had taken sides in the conflict.
Openly side with the allies and the Catholic Church wouldn't have been able to save as many lives as it did, during the war.

The old Roman Pontifical contains a blessing of weapons, but the text of the blessing assumes that they will be used in defence of the Church or of widows and orphans.
So it wouldn't be too far off the mark to assume he was hoping to encourage the more pius of the Germans to show a little compassion when doing their duty.
http://www.liturgialatina.org/pontificale/081.htm
Wasn't intended to be a rebuttal, but take it as you wish, was purely adding information on the thread.

I can also speak from experience, my grandfather was a devout catholic in his youth as well as a serving pilot of the Luftwaffe, I can tell you from his words that the Pope blessing their equipment meant nothing to the individual soldier, they prayed to survive the day and for an end to the war.

Remember the Catholic Church isn't just a religious organisation, it is also a very political one. Maybe not so much in modern days...
 

SnafuSmite

Active Member
#9
Yes, that was the excuse given by the Catholic Church, when questioned about their attitude. It may convince Catholic believers (although this caused a case of conscience to many of them), but for all others, this protection offerred to Nazis or Nazi-sympathisers trying to escape justice after WW2 was simply unacceptable.
As usual the Vatican played the neutral card when it suits them, the Vatican has one of the most blood stained reputations in history “whilst doing God's workâ€￾.

The day the Catholic Church acknowledges and apologises for its own crimes against humanity, then you can tell me how ‘humanitarian’ they are. They were the first multinational corporation at the expense of peoples' ignorance and fear.
 

Cernunnos

Active Member
Pro Member
#10
As usual the Vatican played the Neutral card when it suits them, the Vatican has one of the most blood stained reputations in history "whilst doing God's work". However I feel that the thread is drifting so I'll keep my religious opinions to myself.
Ah yes, that darn Vatican. Staying true to Catholic ideals, don't they know forgiveness is only for the good guys?

If it weren't for Catholicism, and the Vatican, the western world would have been much worse off.
It made massive contributions to western law; https://www.catholiceducation.org/e...the-catholic-contribution-to-western-law.html, and other such contributions; http://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/05/06/what-the-church-has-given-the-world/ .

Out of all the Religions of the world, Catholicism is one of the best suited to civilised society.
No head-hunting or cannibalism, like the African Animists/Pagans.
No major mistreatment of women, like Islam.
No emphasis on Caste, like Hinduism.

But I'll just keep my religious opinions to myself.
 

SnafuSmite

Active Member
#11
Ah yes, that darn Vatican.
Staying true to Catholic ideals, don't they know forgiveness is only for the good guys?

If it weren't for Catholicism, and the Vatican, the western world would have been much worse off.
It made massive contributions to western law; https://www.catholiceducation.org/e...the-catholic-contribution-to-western-law.html, and other such contributions; http://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/05/06/what-the-church-has-given-the-world/ .

Out of all the Religions of the world, Catholicism is one of the best suited to civilised society.
No head-hunting or cannibalism, like the African Animists/Pagans.
No major mistreatment of women, like Islam.
No emphasis on Caste, like Hinduism.

But I'll just keep my religious opinions to myself.
And a publication written by themselves, of course they'll be non biased and not blow their own trumpet. I suggest you look up some Catholic Church endorsed torture methods or even better their witch hunting manual. Very civilized reading with a touch of humanism... and yes imagine where we would've been if they hadn't burnt scientists at the stake for claiming the Earth was round, and let's not forget how the church persecuted the Jews if you really want to have fun.
 

dusaboss

Hyper Active Member
#12
But I'll just keep my religious opinions to myself.

Do you? :)

C'mon man do you think that before Catholicism people was running around shagging sheep and killing each other? Do you think that Christians (catholics obviously) invented moral? Yeah, Catholicism is good if other option is Islam! If you compare medieval Islam with medieval Christianity I think they were more progressive. This "F-up in head" Islam is relatively new thing.

Of course there is not all bad in religion. There's many good things coming from it. There's also some nasty . It's not so simple to say "this religion is best so you should all obey"! Why? "Because I was born into that religion" Hmmm yeah, right. That sounds like something "Achmed the Dead Terrorist" would say. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBvfiCdk-jc
 

SnafuSmite

Active Member
#13
Ah yes, that darn Vatican. Staying true to Catholic ideals, don't they know forgiveness is only for the good guys?

If it weren't for Catholicism, and the Vatican, the western world would have been much worse off.
It made massive contributions to western law; https://www.catholiceducation.org/e...the-catholic-contribution-to-western-law.html, and other such contributions; http://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/05/06/what-the-church-has-given-the-world/ .

Out of all the Religions of the world, Catholicism is one of the best suited to civilised society.
No head-hunting or cannibalism, like the African Animists/Pagans.
No major mistreatment of women, like Islam.
No emphasis on Caste, like Hinduism.

But I'll just keep my religious opinions to myself.
If anything the Catholic church sent us further back in civilization, they were anti-democracy, literally invented pay your way to heaven with indulgences, decreed the magna carta as herecy, executed scientists, manipulated monarchs, and burnt woman at the stake for witchcraft if they used old ancient herbal medicines.
The Romans contributed way more such as roads and democracy, with a few emporers here and there granted, to this day 75% of most modern western countries laws and government systems are based on the Roman system, and they were "head hunting paganists". Name me one country that's foundation is Canon Law?
 

dusaboss

Hyper Active Member
#15
I never said anything like that and I would appreciate it if you didn't try and put words in my mouth.
I only said that the Catholic Church and the Pope at the time weren't sympathising with the Nazis.
Then I provided evidence to prove why they didn't and couldn't, as an organisation, sympathise with the Nazis. (...)
I was not putting words in your mouth, I was just extending your post and pointing on a widely accepted misconception that only the Jews suffered (they did suffer, I'm not denying that), but that notion is somehow put in our minds so whenever we think about WW2, Hitler and Nazis first thing we think of is in many cases is The Holocaust. And what is Holocaust - systematic destruction of Jewish people ... wrong! Is not only about Jews, but somehow become synonym for only Jewish suffering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims Look at the table with number of victims by nationality. Ok Jews or on first place, but there is German Jews, Polish, Ukrainian etc. No other group of people are counted in same way so if e.g. you add together all Slavs looks like they (we) died in almost double number of Jews!.

You can easily be accused for antisemitism just by saying things (facts) as I did now. Why is that possible in modern free society??? I don't know but something doesn't look right to me.

(...) Before Britain and the United States got pulled into a war against Germany they were refusing to help Jews that wanted to escape because they didn't want a war with Germany and helping the Jews escape would have annoyed the Germans quite a bit.
They didn't want a war with Germany? So why did they declare war on Germany if they wasn't attacked? Ye we can say that was done to prevent Hitler of taking over whole Europe and there is some truth to it but still there is many unclear, shady things.
 
#16
Out of historical interest, if anyone wants to know how much further beyond the Jews the Nazis' plans went, Google “Generalplan Ostâ€￾. The fact that neo-nazism can even be a thing in eastern Europe and Russia utterly baffles me.

They didn't want war with Germany? So why did they declare war on Germany if they wasn't attacked?
After the Western powers allowed the Nazis to take over the Sudentenland, the Nazis then consumed the rest of Czechoslovakia, and made it clear that Poland was next. Realising there was no end to the Nazis' ambitions, the Western powers (but not America, which was neutral at the time) drew a line in the sand: “if you invade Poland, we will declare war on youâ€￾. The Nazis went ahead and invaded Poland, and the rest as they say, was history.
 

Cernunnos

Active Member
Pro Member
#18
And a publication written by themselves, of course they'll be non biased and not blow their own trumpet. I suggest you look up some Catholic Church endorsed torture methods or even better their witch hunting manual. Very civilized reading with a touch of humanism... and yes imagine where we would've been if they hadn't burnt scientists at the stake for claiming the Earth was round, and let's not forget how the church persecuted the Jews if you really want to have fun.
Historically, Catholics are numbered among the most important scientists of all time, including Rene Descartes, who discovered analytic geometry and the laws of refraction; Blaise Pascal, inventor of the adding machine, hydraulic press, and the mathematical theory of probabilities; Augustinian priest Gregor Mendel, who founded modern genetics; Louis Pasteur, founder of microbiology and creator of the first vaccine for rabies and anthrax; and cleric Nicolaus Copernicus, who first developed scientifically the view that the earth rotated around the sun. Jesuit priests in particular have a long history of scientific achievement; they contributed to the development of pendulum clocks, pantographs, barometers, reflecting telescopes and microscopes, to scientific fields as various as magnetism, optics and electricity. They observed, in some cases before anyone else, the colored bands on Jupiter's surface, the Andromeda nebula and Saturn's rings. They theorized about the circulation of the blood (independently of Harvey), the theoretical possibility of flight, the way the moon affected the tides, and the wave-like nature of light. Star maps of the southern hemisphere, symbolic logic, flood-control measures on the Po and Adige rivers, introducing plus and minus signs into Italian mathematics — all were typical Jesuit achievements, and scientists as influential as Fermat, Huygens, Leibniz and Newton were not alone in counting Jesuits among their most prized correspondents.

Jonathan Wright, The Jesuits: Missions, Myths, and Histories (London: HarperCollins, 2004), p. 189; quoted in Thomas Woods, How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization (Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, 2005), p. 100.


Do you? :)

C'mon man do you think that before Catholicism people was running around shagging sheep and killing each other? Do you think that Christians (catholics obviously) invented moral? Yeah, Catholicism is good if other option is Islam! If you compare medieval Islam with medieval Christianity I think they were more progressive. This "F-up in head" Islam is relatively new thing.

Of course there is not all bad in religion. There's many good things coming from it. There's also some nasty . It's not so simple to say "this religion is best so you should all obey"! Why? "Because I was born into that religion" Hmmm yeah, right. That sounds like something "Achmed the Dead Terrorist" would say. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBvfiCdk-jc
He certainly doesn't.
Yes, before Catholicism Human sacrifice was extremely common.
If you believe in absolute morality then you should know that it isn't created, it just is.

No, this Islam is not a new thing.
But we have already discussed this.

I'm not Catholic so I wasn't born into it nor have I chosen to follow it.
I also said one of the best not the best.

If anything the Catholic church sent us further back in civilization, they were anti-democracy, literally invented pay your way to heaven with indulgences, decreed the magna carta as herecy, executed scientists, manipulated monarchs, and burnt woman at the stake for witchcraft if they used old ancient herbal medicines.
The Romans contributed way more such as roads and democracy, with a few emporers here and there granted, to this day 75% of most modern western countries laws and government systems are based on the Roman system, and they were "head hunting paganists". Name me one country that's foundation is Canon Law?

Anti-Democracy? In what way?
Pay your way to heaven? That's not how indulgences work. You sacrifice worldly possession to show you are sorry, you must still answer for your trespasses.
Executed scientists? Some of the most famous scientists and inventors are Catholic.
Manipulated Monarchs? Do you have no idea what you're talking about? The monarchs entire claim to legitimacy is that they have God's grace to rule the nation.
Witch burnings? Here http://departments.kings.edu/womens_history/witch/werror.html#Church
The Romans weren't the first to build roads and they certainly were not a democracy.
One country? I'm afraid savages tend to stay as tribes.
I've already given you a link discussing the Catholic Churches contribution to western law.
 

Cernunnos

Active Member
Pro Member
#19
Well... I think they are transparent... :)
He said "As usual the Vatican played the Neutral card when it suits them (...) I'll keep my religious opinions to myself." so I was just taking the piss in all honesty.
I wonder why he edited it out? :confused:


I was not putting words in your mouth. I was just extending your post and pointing on widely accepted misconception that only Jews suffered (They are I'm not denying that), But that notion is somehow putted in our minds so whenever we think about WW2 , Hitler and Nazis first thing we think of is in many cases is The Holocaust. And what is Holocaust -systematic destruction of Jewish people ... wrong! Is not only about Jews ,but somehow become synonym for only Jewish suffering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims Look at the table with number of victims by nationality. Ok Jews or on first place, but there is German Jews, Polish, Ukrainian etc. No other group of people are counted in same way so if e.g. you add together all Slavs looks like they (we) died in almost double number of Jews!.

You can easily be accused for antisemitizmas just by saying things (facts) as I did now. Why is that possible in modern free society???
I don't know but something doesn't look right to me.
Yes, it is a shame that people ignore the suffering of the Slavs under Nazi occupation.


They didn't want war with Germany? So why did they declare war on Germany if they wasn't attacked? Ye we can say that was done to prevent Hitler of taking over whole Europe and there is some truth to it but still there is many unclear, shady things.
They didn't want a war with Germany but Hitler gave them no choice.
Britain said if he invaded Poland then it would be war and the Japs dragged the Americans into the war.
Here is some reading material on the subject. https://www2.gwu.edu/~erpapers/teachinger/glossary/world-war-2.cfm
 

SnafuSmite

Active Member
#20
Historically, Catholics are numbered among the most important scientists of all time, including Rene Descartes, who discovered analytic geometry and the laws of refraction; Blaise Pascal, inventor of the adding machine, hydraulic press, and the mathematical theory of probabilities; Augustinian priest Gregor Mendel, who founded modern genetics; Louis Pasteur, founder of microbiology and creator of the first vaccine for rabies and anthrax; and cleric Nicolaus Copernicus, who first developed scientifically the view that the earth rotated around the sun. Jesuit priests in particular have a long history of scientific achievement; they contributed to the development of pendulum clocks, pantographs, barometers, reflecting telescopes and microscopes, to scientific fields as various as magnetism, optics and electricity. They observed, in some cases before anyone else, the colored bands on Jupiter's surface, the Andromeda nebula and Saturn's rings. They theorized about the circulation of the blood (independently of Harvey), the theoretical possibility of flight, the way the moon affected the tides, and the wave-like nature of light. Star maps of the southern hemisphere, symbolic logic, flood-control measures on the Po and Adige rivers, introducing plus and minus signs into Italian mathematics — all were typical Jesuit achievements, and scientists as influential as Fermat, Huygens, Leibniz and Newton were not alone in counting Jesuits among their most prized correspondents.

Jonathan Wright, The Jesuits: Missions, Myths, and Histories (London: HarperCollins, 2004), p. 189; quoted in Thomas Woods, How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization (Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, 2005), p. 100.




He certainly doesn't.
Yes, before Catholicism Human sacrifice was extremely common.
If you believe in absolute morality then you should know that it isn't created, it just is.

No, this Islam is not a new thing.
But we have already discussed this.

I'm not Catholic so I wasn't born into it nor have I chosen to follow it.
I also said one of the best not the best.




Anti-Democracy? In what way?
Pay your way to heaven? That's not how indulgences work. You sacrifice worldly possession to show you are sorry, you must still answer for your trespasses.
Executed scientists? Some of the most famous scientists and inventors are Catholic.
Manipulated Monarchs? Do you have no idea what you're talking about? The monarchs entire claim to legitimacy is that they have God's grace to rule the nation.
Witch burnings? Here http://departments.kings.edu/womens_history/witch/werror.html#Church
The Romans weren't the first to build roads and they certainly were not a democracy.
One country? I'm afraid savages tend to stay as tribes.
I've already given you a link discussing the Catholic Churches contribution to western law.
You have no cooking clue about history mate... Romans not a democracy??? Have you not heard of the Republic or Senate? Funny you mention that savages stay as tribes, the Celts and the Britons were drinking each other's blood and living in mud huts before the Romans arrived, however the Romans brought roads and castles/forts. The Briton tribes were the ultimate savages? Do you think they still are considering savages and have stayed a tribe?

And who gave the Monarch's God's grace was it not the Pope? What started the English reformation? Was it not Henry Tudor that refused to follow the Pope's instruction. Read up on your own history before making claims.

Ask Galileo, about not condemning scientists...

Further more I'll repeat my previous statement about them being anti democracy, read up how the Catholic Church decreed the magna carta herecy, and the Pope proactively supported Monarchies over any democratic government.

Additionally there's a reason that their time of greatest influence is called the dark ages, thank goodness we had the Renaissance and reformation to propel our civilization forward...
 

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