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Thread: Foreigners in US army?

  1. #1
    superJoe Major Forum Poster voltigeur's Avatar
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    Foreigners in US army?

    From [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    February 24, 2005 E-mail story Print Most E-Mailed

    Max Boot:
    Uncle Sam Wants Tu
    # The military could ease its manpower shortage by letting foreigners join up.

    Biography:

    Max Boot

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    It is hard to pick up a newspaper these days without reading about Army and Marine Corps recruiting and retention woes. Nonstop deployments and the danger faced by troops in Iraq are making it hard for both services to fill their ranks. The same goes for the National Guard and Reserves. (The Navy and Air Force, which are much less in harm's way, have no such difficulty.)

    Just to stay at their present sizes, the Army and Marines are shoveling money into more advertising, extra recruiters and bigger enlistment bonuses. And yet it's clear to everyone (except, that is, President Bush and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld) that the U.S. military is far too small to handle all the missions thrown its way. We need to not only maintain the current ranks but also to expand them in order to recover from a 1990s downsizing in which the Army lost 300,000 soldiers.

    Some experts are already starting to wonder whether the war on terrorism might break the all-volunteer military. But because reinstating the draft isn't a serious option (the House defeated a symbolic draft bill last year, 402 to 2), some outside-the-box thinking is needed to fill up the ranks. In this regard, I note that there is a pretty big pool of manpower that's not being tapped: everyone on the planet who is not a U.S. citizen or permanent resident.

    Since 9/11, Bush has expedited the naturalization process for soldiers. But to enlist, the Pentagon requires either proof of citizenship or a green card. Out of an active-duty force of about 1.4 million, only 108,803 are foreign-born (7%) and 30,541 are noncitizens (2%).

    This is an anomaly by historical standards: In the 19th century, when the foreign-born population of the United States was much higher, so was the percentage of foreigners serving in the military. During the Civil War, at least 20% of Union soldiers were immigrants, and many of them had just stepped off the boat before donning a blue uniform. There were even entire units, like the 15th Wisconsin Volunteer Infantry (the Scandinavian Regiment) and Gen. Louis Blenker's German Division, where English was hardly spoken.

    The military would do well today to open its ranks not only to legal immigrants but also to illegal ones and, as important, to untold numbers of young men and women who are not here now but would like to come. No doubt many would be willing to serve for some set period in return for one of the world's most precious commodities — U.S. citizenship. Open up recruiting stations from Budapest to Bangkok, Cape Town to Cairo, Montreal to Mexico City. Some might deride those who sign up as mercenaries, but these troops would have significantly different motives than the usual soldier of fortune.

    The simplest thing to do would be to sign up foreigners for the regular U.S. military, but it would also make sense to create a unit whose enlisted ranks would be composed entirely of non-Americans, led by U.S. officers and NCOs.

    Call it the Freedom Legion. As its name implies, this unit would be modeled on the French Foreign Legion, except, again, U.S. citizenship would be part of the "pay." And rather than fighting for U.S. security writ small — the way the Foreign Legion fights for the glory of France — it would have as its mission defending and advancing freedom across the world. It would be, in effect, a multinational force under U.S. command — but one that wouldn't require the permission of France, Germany or the United Nations to deploy.

    The Freedom Legion would be the perfect unit to employ in places such as Darfur that are not critical security concerns but that cry out for more effective humanitarian intervention than any international organization could muster. U.S. politicians, so wary (and rightly so) of casualties among U.S. citizens, might take a more lenient attitude toward the employment of a force not made up of their constituents. An added benefit is that by recruiting foreigners, the U.S. military could address its most pressing strategic deficit in the war on terrorism — lack of knowledge about other cultures. The most efficient way to expand the government's corps of Pashto or Arabic speakers isn't to send native-born Americans to language schools; it's to recruit native speakers of those languages.

    Similar considerations early in the Cold War led Congress to pass the Lodge Act in 1950. This law allowed the Army Special Forces to recruit foreigners not living in the United States with the promise of citizenship after five years of service. More than 200 Eastern Europeans qualified as commandos before the Lodge Act expired in 1959. There's no reason why we couldn't recruit a fresh batch of foreigners today. It would certainly be easier than trying to sweet-talk more troops out of recalcitrant allies or, these days, recruiting at U.S. high schools.
    c'est la guerre [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

  2. #2
    Top Member Main Forum Poster BobW's Avatar
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    Bonjour Voltigeur1 and all,

    It's already being discussed. Lowend numbers for needed troop strength range from 150,000 to 500,000.

    Max Boot might think he knows more about this than Bush/Rummy but this isn't new. The first milestones needed crossing. When the Social Security program/medicare is resolved (hopefully soon), the money will be available - except for the National Guard and Reserve (inefficient for today's requirements).

    Note that Max Boot, a member of the Council of Foreign Relations, didn't want to help out with the too thin numbers in the ranks. Let the others do the work.

    Boot suggested foreign located recruiting stations for his proposal, with one being mentioned for Montreal. During the Vietnam War, for every American who left for Canada, 2-3 Canadians served with US forces. This service even went beyond the war to include 20 year programs with retirement packages.

    I hereby nominate Max Boot as Officer in Charge, Recruiting Station Basra, Basra, Iraq.

    Saluations,
    BobW

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    Active Member Slivovitz's Avatar
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    My two cents:
    This topic has been discussed before, but not at length. We went off on a tangent rather quickly, and the thread was eventually deleted.
    The name "Freedom Legion" is comical to me. It's a "Foreign Legion"; whoever wrote that article is a jackass.
    I do not support the formation of an American Foreign Legion. I support the formation of a conscription military; it would put an end to any and all problems directly related to troop shortages, (among other things). Unfortunately, the PC politicians up on capitol hill, "Liberal" and "Conservative" alike, are well aware that a conscription military would not be palatable to their careers/wallets/respective parties, so it ain't gonna happen any time soon.
    As far as the creation of an American Foreign Legion is concerned... is this really ANYMORE politically sound than instituting a conscription military? American Conservatives are already pissed off at the Bush Administration for being too lenient on illegal immingrants, and Liberals are pissed off at the government for (among other things) being too lenient on corporations who hire/underpay illegal immigrants to do American jobs... Walmart springs to mind (they're slashing wages!). It follows that neither the "Cons" nor the "Libs" would be too keen on allowing "them damn dirty brown people into our right white country, yeehaw!!!" or "allowing the evil military monsters to abuse young beautiful innocent Latino angels by sending them off to invade foreign countries for crap pay!!!!" (and the pay would be crap). It would be political suicide for either party to endorse an American Foreign Legion, although I believe the Democrats would have better luck with it than the Republicans.
    IMHO, we have few enuf jobs as it it. We don't have room for anymore citizens, especially not worthless little scabs who are too shit-weak and gutless to unionize (no racial connotations were intended by that remark). Not that unions really hold any political sway in this country anymore, they're too scared to take baseball bats to people's kneecaps... bunch of pushovers. Anyway, I seem to be going off on a tangent.
    Point is that even if the creation of an American Foreign Legion is the best solution to our current military problems, it's simply not politically correct enough for either party to endorse.
    That's all for now, I got more to add, but I don't got the time.
    Cheers,
    William
    Last edited by Slivovitz; 25th February 2005 at 22:42.
    "I hate you English! With your boring trousers, and your shiney toilet paper, and your ridiculous preconceptions that Frenchmen are great lovers! I'm French, and I'm hung like a baby carrot, and a couple of petite pois."

  4. #4
    Active Member dietrying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobW
    I hereby nominate Max Boot as Officer in Charge, Recruiting Station Basra, Basra, Iraq.
    Not a bad idea. Wasn't there a viet regiment in the French army during Indochine? Promise them better pay and let them fight their own wars.
    *flip side*
    "a enemy of an enemy is my friend" doesn't work alot. Think O.b.L. or Ho Chi Minh in cahoots with the CIA to kick out the Japs during ww2. (but it wasn't called the CIA back then, was it the OSS?) training someone you are just going to fight later is maybe a poor idea.

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    Top Member Main Forum Poster BobW's Avatar
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    Bonjour Die Trying,

    Don't have my French-Viet OOB near me now.

    Re flip side-enemy of an enemy is a friend; has well-known calculated risks. There are known trade offs involved. One of the most famous is Lend-Lease. Lend Lease went to the USSR and China (Where do you think Chairman Mao got some of his material for the Chinese Civil War?!).

    There were a few organizations making contact with Uncle Ho during WWII. OSS was one of them (CIA not established until 1947). Ho was known to the US Government. Bin Laden is a similiar case;trade offs involved with calculated risks.

    Saluations,
    BobW

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    Member Paddy22's Avatar
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    The department of immigration leaves the department of Defence set their own recruitment requirements. The DOD leave it up to the individual branches, Army, Marines etc. They set it at greencard, but if they wanted to they could take a non resident and it would be legal.
    I have heard of people pulling people in.
    But they wouldn't take me.

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    Member rcp's Avatar
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    hello all,

    I have contacted US NAVY, ARMY, MARINES but they all have same answer. I need to have Green card or application of green card in immigration department.

    I will print this article and visit US Armed forces.

    I have also requested application from British Army but they say 4 to 6 months waiting period and I can not even go directly to UK for entrance test.

    French Foreign legion has responded very fast to my request and I will go to France once I have enough money for pursuing Masters degree in Denmark as my backup plan.

    Getting green card in USA is easy if you have money. There are many consulting companies that hire you and tell Immigration department that his or her skills are crucial to economy. It all depends on how much money you feed to immigration lawyers.

    Most of the people who get green card by corruption are not going to serve in military and I think its unfair to me and other people who would like to serve USA.

    I have Bachelor in Mechanical Engineering but no job. Thats why I decided to pursue career in military because in civilian life I have to worry about many things. In military I only have to serve with honour and fidelity as said by FFL.

    thx voltigeur for this article.

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    Active Member echo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcp
    hello all,

    I have contacted US NAVY, ARMY, MARINES but they all have same answer. I need to have Green card or application of green card in immigration department.

    I will print this article and visit US Armed forces.

    I have also requested application from British Army but they say 4 to 6 months waiting period and I can not even go directly to UK for entrance test.

    French Foreign legion has responded very fast to my request and I will go to France once I have enough money for pursuing Masters degree in Denmark as my backup plan.

    Getting green card in USA is easy if you have money. There are many consulting companies that hire you and tell Immigration department that his or her skills are crucial to economy. It all depends on how much money you feed to immigration lawyers.

    Most of the people who get green card by corruption are not going to serve in military and I think its unfair to me and other people who would like to serve USA.

    I have Bachelor in Mechanical Engineering but no job. Thats why I decided to pursue career in military because in civilian life I have to worry about many things. In military I only have to serve with honour and fidelity as said by FFL.

    thx voltigeur for this article.
    I don't understand... are you saying that foreigners can serve in the USMC? so... if I get a green-card, I can join the corps and maybe go to Iraq? Or did I just misunderstand your post?

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    Member mortarman77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echo
    I don't understand... are you saying that foreigners can serve in the USMC? so... if I get a green-card, I can join the corps and maybe go to Iraq? Or did I just misunderstand your post?
    Yes you can join the Corps w/ a greencard. I did it back in 97.

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    Actual or Ex Legionnaire rickyhimalayan's Avatar
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    hi...
    I have this similar plans first go to Europe for my masters degree. From there i can apply in FFL, but i'm not sure from which country i can apply for FFL. I'm a Economics gradute. if u can tell me more about this.

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    superJoe Major Forum Poster voltigeur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickyhimalayan
    hi...
    i have ths similar plans first go to europe for my masters degree.. from there i can apply in FL.... but i'm not sure from which country i can apply for FL..
    I'm a Economics gradute .
    if u can tell me more about this.
    You can only apply in France for the Legion. Please read all the stickies and information on my web site. Furthermore, check the official Legion web site. see the section other Legion web sites on this forum.
    c'est la guerre [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

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    Active Member echo's Avatar
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    mortarman77, can you please explain this a little more detailed? How do you get greencard, and for how long? What are the chanses of beeing accepted as a US Marine? What are the requirements? Any website you know of with more information on this? I'm just currious, going to join the FFL first anyway.

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    Member mortarman77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echo
    mortarman77, can you please explain this a little more detailed? How do you get greencard, and for how long? What are the chanses of beeing accepted as a US Marine? What are the requirements? Any website you know of with more information on this? I'm just currious, going to join the FFL first anyway.

    i dont know first hand how you apply for a greencard.....in my case my stepdad was a US citizen so he petitioned us to get a greencard.But i think you can find all the info on how to apply for a greencard on this website

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    and about joining USMC just like any other military you have to be physically fit for duty and go through a bunch of medical screening

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    Top Moderator Major Forum Poster Rapace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickyhimalayan
    From there i can apply in FFL, but i'm not sure from which country i can apply for FFL.
    There are not multiple options. The only way to apply for the Legion is to present yourself at one of the recruiting post on the French territory.
    Prends garde aux rapaces qui fondent du ciel

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    Active Member sikter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcp
    hello all,

    I have contacted US NAVY, ARMY, MARINES but they all have same answer. I need to have Green card or application of green card in immigration department.
    You mean to tell me that anyone showing up in the US and applying for green card can join the army?

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