Private salon Ch. Stoeng / Hannibal

[Stoeng]

What about countries like Russia, Mexico or Ukraine, which are neither NATO nor third world states? I mean how can you check them? For example let's say a Russian. I doubt you can do a check-up of them through official Russian channels. Maybe via Interpol, but I doubt that the Russian officials would hand you the file of any of its citizen

Russia is no problem. They have some very good reasons to cooperate. On the other hand, there are other countries that are more difficult. This subject is now slipping into a no go zone and I think we should stop here .

[hannibal]

Russia is no problem; they have some very good reasons to cooperate.

Blue envelope? A thousand free posters of Pamela Anderson? Two drucks of beer per year? Some incriminating photos of Putin in kinky situation with unknown females? Whatever you have it must be good.

On the other hand, there are other countries that are more difficult.

In Europe? Actually Charles it was also the other way around. The communist secret services also controlled the Foreign Legion. I have seen Ukrainian KGB and Yugoslav UDBA files on Russian & Ukrainian and Yugoslav legionnaires from 1945-90. It seems they had their sources inside the Legion.

[The Dude]

I have seen Ukrainian KGB and Yugoslav UDBA files on Russian & Ukrainian and Yugoslav legionnaires from 1945-90. It seems they had their sources inside the Legion.

...If you're a real deal....then you had/have some serious security clearing....

[Stoeng]

In Europe? Actually Charles it was also the other way around. The communist secret services also controlled the Foreign Legion. I have seen Ukrainian KGB and Yugoslav UDBA files on Russian & Ukrainian and Yugoslav legionnaires from 1945-90. It seems they had their sources inside the Legion.

As far as I know nobody outside the French government (Vichy and Free French included) has never controlled the Legion. I mean by controlled, being able to interfere and change the strategy and main intentions of the Legion.

That they had informants is obvious, and it still exist is some cases today. Luckily there are not many (actually none) strategic secrets in the Legion so nobody really cares.

The only secret missions that have a really confidential content is done by one single little unit where everybody has been properly security screened before being posted there.

[hannibal]

...If you're a real deal....then you had/have some serious security clearing....

Not really. Ukrainian and Serbian & Montenegrian War Archives are easier to access than the Russian. The problem with the Ruissian War Archive is that it is run like a military unit and not archive. Before you enter, be a Russian or a foreigner, you have to apply at the Ministry of Defense and they make security check, clearing or whatever of you. And of course you need to know the right people.

As far as I know nobody outside the French government (Vichy and Free French included) has never controlled the Legion. I mean by controlled, being able to interfere and change the strategy and main intentions of the Legion.

What about OAS? Probably the only time when the existence of the French Foreign Legion was threatened. From what I could tell it was Pierre Messmer that saved the Legion.

That they had informants is obvious, and it still exist is some cases today. Luckily there are not many (actually none) strategic secrets in the Legion so nobody really cares.

Actually this gentleman I was telling you about, who had spent his entire career (from late 1960s to 1987) in the Security Service of the Yugoslav People's Army (similar to the Legion "Gestapo" unit) has his own website on the net. Some time ago he published a small book and there was also a page about the French Foreign Legion. Inside he noted that the covering of the FFL was under his domain throughout his career, so he knows the area well. He says that most men from Yugoslavia who joined were of dubious character: extremists, criminals, smugglers etc.

The only secret missions that have a really confidential content is done by one single little unit where everybody has been properly security screened before being posted there.

Just curious: these men... I presume they are legionnaires... but already with French citizenship, not so?

[Stoeng]

What about OAS? probably the only time when the existence of the French Foreign legion was threatened. From what I could tell it was Pierre Messmer that saved the Legion.

Individual officers and NCO’s taking advantage of the extreme loyalty they had from their men (units). There were never question of a Legion rebellion. If this had been the case they would have succeeded. If the Legion was saved by Pierre Messmer can be argued for many pages. Anyway he was the Minister of Defense, hence in the French government.

Actually this gentleman I was telling you about, who had spent his entire career (from late 1960s to 1987) in the Security Service of the Yugoslav People's Army (similar to the Legion "Gestapo" unit) has his own website on the net. Some time ago he published a small book and there was also a page about the French Foreign Legion. Inside he noted that the covering of the FFL was under his domain throughout his career, so he knows the area well. he says that most men from Yugoslavia who joined were of dubious character: extremists, criminals, smugglers etc.

Hannibal this is BS, you didn't have to be in a secret service to have such a opinion about the Yugoslavs in the Legion during the 70s and 80s. The extremist were the Croats and the criminals were those who had not done their national service in Yugoslavia. The smugglers where the rest. Anyway, Yugoslavia today is history, but the Legion is still there

Just curious: These men... I presume they are legionnaires... but already with French citizenship, not so?

Why French citizenship ??? Every legionnaire that has passed basic training has a real (fake) French passport used during military operations.

[hannibal]

Individual officers and NCO’s taking advantage of the extreme loyalty they had from their men (units). There where never question of a Legion rebellion.

Nevertheless, like or not, this has left a very bad image on the Legion and her public image did not significantly improve until Kolwezi Operation.

If the Legion was saved by Pierre Messmer can be argued for many pages. Anyway he was the Minister of Defense, hence in the French government.

This was never questionable.

Hannibal this is BS, you dident have to be in a secret service to have such a opinion about the Yugoslavs in the Legion during the 70s and 80s

Please don't take it on me. I just wrote what he wrote.

The extremist where the Croats and the criminals were those who had not done their national service in Yugoslavia. The smugglers were the rest. Anyway, Yugoslavia today is history, but the Legion is still there

The extremists were mostly members of Croatian and Serbian extreme (terrorist) movements. When speaking about criminals I am speaking about people who were wanted for robbery, murder or any other serious criminal offences. There were very few of those who came to the Legion for not doing their national service in Yugoslavia. The national service in Yugoslavia lasted for... hm... twelve months ...I think... Let me see.. Yes for twelve months and the Legion lasted five years. Doesn't make sense to me. Those who deserted mainly went to Germany, Sweden, Austria or even France and asked for political asylum and later applied for French (German, Swedish etc.) citizenship.

Why French citizenship ??? Every legionnaire that has passed basic training has a real (fake) French passport used during military operations.

Now from what I have understood your previous message this small unit of carefully selected, screened and trained legionnaires is also used (if necessary that is) for French secret military operations abroad (again if necessary), which the French government would like to keep secret as they could be potentially embarassing or threatening to France or French government? What legal and other actions can a French government then take against a German/Russian/Belgian/Japanese etc. legionnaire XYA who had left the Legion and after a couple of years decides to leak some of these for France potentially embrassing information to the German, Russian, Dutch, Norwegian, Belgian, Serbian, Polish, Japanese etc. press? I mean the Legion can get here a new Christmann and Ludwig!

Did you get my point?

[Stoeng]

Nevertheless, like or not, this has left a very bad image on the Legion and her public image did not significantly improve until Kolwezi Operation.

Hey !!! you have been subjected to leftist propaganda . The Legion always had a good reputation in the population (the right population).

When speaking about criminals I am speaking about people who were wanted for robbery, murder or any other serious criminal offences.

Even it the 60s 70s and 80s those under Interpol warrant would not be accepted in the Legion.

There were very few of those who came to the Legion for not doing their national service in Yugoslavia. The national service in Yugoslavia lasted for... hm... twelve months ...I think... Let me see.. Yes for twelve months and the Legion lasted five years. Doesn't make sense to me. Those who deserted mainly went to Germany, Sweden, Austria or even France and asked for political asylum and later applied for French (German, Swedish etc.) citizenship.

Why not? 5 years, good job with decent pay and citizenship at the end.

Now from what I have understood your previous message this small unit of carefully selected, screened and trained legionnaires is also used (if necessary that is) for French secret military operations abroad (again if necessary), which the French government would like to keep secret as they could be potentially embarassing or threatening to France or French government? What legal and other actions can a French government then take against a German/Russian/Belgian/Japanese etc. legionnaire XYZ who had left the Legion and after a couple of years decides to leak some of these for France potentially embrassing information to the German, Russian, Dutch, Norwegian, Belgian, Serbian, Polish, Japanese etc. press? I mean the Legion can get here a new Christmann and Ludwig!

Now you are yourself making your own story. I said missions of a really confidential content, nothing more . These legionnaires will for many reasons never ever leak any story to the press or any foreign power. Just look at all the former legionnaires on this board (the real ones) they have a formidable committment to the Legion, even after years in civilian life.

You can have a very cool and neutral historian vision of the Legion, but believe me, the Legion is a very special place. It has nothing to do with the training or the professional level, but when the Legion (the institution) is under your skin you will never be the same again .

Do you get my point ???

[hannibal]

Hey !!! you have been subjected to leftist propaganda

Well being totally correct I could kinda claim the same for you, ie you have been subjected to "Legion propaganda". After all as you said "but when the Legion (the institution) is under your skin you will never be the same again". I only say what I have read and heard from various people. Nothing more, nothing less. In my job I cannot afford afford a luxury of being subjected to any propaganda.

The Legion always had a good reputation in the population (the right population)

I always find it kinda fascinating or may I say darn interesting that usually it were the leftists who spoke much against the Foreign Legion, yet many of the communists or their sympathizers enlisted in the Foreign Legion in 1930s and 1940s. Kinda cute, don't you think so too?

Even it the 60s 70s and 80s those under interpol warrant would not be accepted in the Legion.

I have my doubts, but let's leave this for another time, OK?

Why not? 5 years, good job with decent pay and citizenship at the end.

... because a political asylum, two years of living on a foreign social welfare and then maybe a nice job at the Volkswagen factory would bring that person much more money into his wallet and eventually he could also apply for citizenship. Let's not forget we are talking here about 1970s and 1980s.

Now you are yourself making your own story. I said missions of a really confidential content, nothing more

No, I was/am not. I was just giving out a possible scenario "what if...". You need to know that in my mother tongue confidential = secret. Also my scenario was based on assumption that they are employed on secret cover operations abroad. Pay attention to the last sentence of mine, please.

You can have a very cool and neutral historian vision of the Legion, but belive me, the Legion is a very special place. It has nothing to do with the training or the professional level, but when the Legion (the institution) is under your skin you will never be the same again

And what if it doesn't get under your skin?

Do you get my point ???

If I wouldn't know you better I would say that you are trying to recruit me. He, he, he...

[Stoeng]

At least about the communists we agree. If I am not completely mistaken, a major part of the legionnaires in Narvik (13 DBLE) were ex Spanish Republicans.

If the Legion does not get under your skin you become a looser in the system and will not have a happy life in the Legion (like it or not).

Regarding the Yugoslavs, I was very lucky and had several Yugoslavs (all ethnicities) as commanders and colleagues in the Legion. They where (and still are) fine people that I am not able to link to murderers and rapists.

About recruiting you, just give me some time and a little bit of convincing, and you will be a true believer

[hannibal]

At least about the communists we agree. If I am not completely mistaken, a major part of the legionnaires in Narvik (13 DBLE) were ex Spanish Republicans.

Yes, indeed. It is estimated that out of 2,500 men of the 13th DBLE at Narvik about 600 of them were Spanish, mostly ex-Republicans. So as you can see a lot.

Regarding the Yugoslavs, I was very lucky and had several Yugoslavs (all ethnicities) as commanders and colleagues in the Legion. They where (and still are) fine people that I am not able to link to murderers and rapists.

Again Charles I was just saying what the "other side" (so to speak) was saying about the Foreign Legion during the Cold War. This never was nor is my official opinion. Ja... I would like we get straight on this. But occasionally I have this strange desire to say this on loud just that you can confirm me again in my belief that what they said is not true. Surely you can understand this. I rather sound a fool for a couple of minutes and ask a questions which may sound unorthodox to you than to be a fool for the rest of my life.

About recruiting you, just give me some time and a little bit of convincing, and you will be a true believer

He,he,he,he,he.... I am a tough nut that cannot be cracked that easily....

Brushing this aside any news in Iran? I hear their president is again talking nonsense? What else is new?

[voltigeur]

What about OAS? probably the only time when the existence of the French Foreign legion was threatened. From what I could tell it was Pierre Messmer that saved the Legion.

There was talk about disbanding all of the Legion because of the Putsch. After the putsch, the Legion had nothing to do with the OAS except that they kept on trying to recruit Legionnaires, including me. It was my understanding at that time, that the French government decided to maintain the Legion, but to reduce the manpower and to be able to build it up again if the need arose. Another reason to keep the Legion might be that there were only two Regiments actively involved in the Putsch. Read the letter from a former French officer on my web site about those events.

[Stoeng]

Brushing this aside any news in Iran? I hear their president is again talking nonsense? What else is new?

Ohh!!!! This is my favorite president. He will lead the nation towards a new and glorious future where the world will really realize the strength and power of this nation.

[hannibal]

... but to reduce the manpower and to be able to build it up again if the need arose. Another reason to keep the Legion might be that there were only two Regiments actively involved in the Putsch. Read the letter from a former French officer on my web site about those events.

I tend to agree with you, Joe. This is also what I have heard and read. Back then the Legion was much more stronger than today. I think that at the peak of the Indochina War the Foreign Legion numbered some 30,000-50,000 men. That's a lot comparing this with today 8,500 men. Speaking of which I have been reading that a further reduction is planned from 8500 to 7500. Anyone know if this is true or another "journalist duck"?

Ohh!!!! This is my favorite president. He will lead the nation towards a new and glorious future...

...which will look like Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945, yes...

where the world will really realize the strength and power of this nation.

Define strength and power of Iran. Much of their money come from oil and gas. Without that they would be on the same economical level as Niger or Malawi. Most educated people left Iran after the fall of the Shah in 1970s and those who wanted or had anything to say were shut up by the secret service and police on this or that way.

[Stoeng]

Define strength and power of Iran. Much of their money come from oil and gas. Without that they would be on the same economical level as Niger or Malawi. Most educated people left Iran after the fall of the shah in 1970s and those who wanted or had anything to say were shut up by the secret service and police on this or that way.

Naaa!! That is a little simplistic way of looking at the problem. It is obvious that I cannot speak completely freely on the net about these issues.
On the other hand, Iran has been a nation for several thousand years. This is not the case of many other nations I know about. There is a highly developed industry with a very good know-how and industrial capabilities. This is obviously NOT the case of any of the neighbouring countries.
That Iran is a major player in the region, both on the political and industrial plan is a fact.
Whether their military ambitions and attitude towards those they call their enemies is realistic can be discussed.