Conditioning for sleep deprivation?

[teddy]

This might sound silly to people who have gone through selection... I agree with the "just do it" attitude but at the same time... I will not be turned around if I can possibly help it.

But I'm thinking -- regardless of how tough or in shape anyone is -- they function completely differently without rest. Which is the point of them doing it in training/selection I'd say... brings out your true colors when the push comes to shove.

Would it be completely ridiculous in preparation for selection to do a couple of rounds of conditioning in sleep deprived circumstances? Not too crazy, but something like 24-48 hour periods with periodic cardio and stimulating the motor skills?

Might already be a thread out there but I couldn't find it. I tried!

[Stoeng]

I think that looks quite pointless and I do not see what kind of improvements this “training” will give.

Better go for a week without sleeping and you will get a feel what the Corporals course is like.

[Hroflr Grimm]

I'm an insomniac, my body has never settled into a routine of sleep. Plus I've lived alot of my life working late shift, long shifts, and did a career that involved all nighters of work from the second year of university all the way until the last day I worked it and hung up my hat.

This is what I'm going to tell you about sleep deprivation. There's a magic point at which you will break or you will remain awake and it's only on a snooze button, each time you pass it you will be facing it again. You pass that point by sheer and utter will power, but what really matters is why. If your why isn't good enough you will either fail immediately or you will fail quickly.

If you need to stay awake you will. If you don't, you won't. Even after living my entire life this way the only times I manage to blast through the barrier is when I truly need to with every fiber of my being.

As far as functioning in a severe sleep deprived state, there is no training that will assist you. Either you will remain awake and you will perform tasks at a greatly reduced capacity or you will collapse in exhaustion and sleep like the dead. There is no getting better at your limited function while sleep deprived, you simply function, or you sleep.

So just train as you would normally. When the time comes, if you need to stay awake you will find the will power to do so and you will function at a greatly reduced rate of your normal abilities, whatever they may be. There is really nothing more you can do.

As far as your "true colors" go, it's simple. If you truly need to be awake you will do so. You don't know until you either remain awake or fall asleep as to whether you truly needed to remain awake from the core of you.

[teddy]

Thank you, understood. Was not sure if the body could learn to become more functional with exposure to it over time or at least lower your sleep requirements.

I'm alot like you described yourself Hrolfr. The only times in my life I ever remember sleeping "well" and routinely either involved marijuana/pills or very very long spouts of consistent physical activities (I did a little stretch as a bike messenger).

I have a feeling I won't be missing a wink of sleep over in France though. :D

[Wolfer_andrei]

If you need to stay awake you will. If you don't, you won't. Even after living my entire life this way the only times I manage to blast through the barrier is when I truly need to with every fiber of my being.




The only times in my life I ever remember sleeping "well" and routinely either involved marijuana/pills or very very long spouts of consistent physical activities (I did a little stretch as a bike messenger).


Omg, what a load of crap!!! :D
My only 2 cents, teddy:
Don't "train" yourself whit lack of sleep, beside the fact that you won't improve that aspect, you shold be healty, powerfull and WELL RESTED when you join, to be able to give your best shot.
Don't worry too much about lack of sleep in basic training. Although I guess it will be hard at first, I've noticed (at me at first, then the fact was confirmed by several others) that when the phisical training rises, the need to sleep lowers ;) and I guess you won't lack phisical activities in basic. (when I did about 4-5 hours of training a day, I couldn't sleep more than maximum 6-7 hours no matter what, and I felt fully rested and fresh, I know guys that did weight lifting, running and swimming every day, they slep only about 3-4 hours a nigh for the same reason)

[Ferret]

Would it be completely ridiculous in preparation for selection to do a couple of rounds of conditioning in sleep deprived circumstances? Not too crazy, but something like 24-48 hour periods with periodic cardio and stimulating the motor skills?


Hi, yep completely ridiculous. Sleep deprivation is like running with shedload of weight. Only do it when you HAVE to buddy.

Don't worry if on exercise your nice Corporal will wake you up should you catch some zzzzzs on stag/guard. Forget the tea and toast, probably a kick or rifle butt (if you don't sleep on it) to the back of the head.

Instant cure for tiredness. :D

[Chas]

No need for conditioning- waste of time for basic training. Mind over matter as resistance to interrogation taught me. And it was such fun often hooded with a sand bad stinking of sweat and urine.:rolleyes:

[flash010]

you cant train for this and a week without sleep you will feel like your on
your way out 4 months with little sleep you will think your a zombie ;)

[Mise]

Find some relative with a teething child and look after it, they'll be only too glad to give you the opportunity to 'condition' yourself.

[flash010]

dont know what your on about teddy when my kid was born it was like that lack of sleep will tell on you.
:rolleyes:

[Eagle eye]

Would it be completely ridiculous in preparation for selection to do a couple of rounds of conditioning in sleep deprived circumstances? Not too crazy, but something like 24-48 hour periods with periodic cardio and stimulating the motor skills?

Might already be a thread out there but I couldn't find it. I tried!...just take the FFL one day at a time.....forget other preparations except improving your French language comprehension: this might improve your chances at selection; other things flow it...

[Martin Scott]

Like any aspect of training lack of sleep comes with the terriorty.
The Four most important things that I learned were,When coming in from en terr.
1. Weapon. Cleaned to perfection.
2. Equipment including Uniform. Clean washed and serviceable.
3. Shower, Crap, and Scoff, " TO THE UNEDUCATED A MEAL"
4. Finally if not required for other duties Sleep........................
In the ten commandments of any Army be it British or The Legion
the frist one is and always will be. I will not sleep on guard/ stag.
May God give you peace if your caught,because He will be the only one that will................................

[Tonyus]

Read this:
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[byerly_turk]

Thank you, understood. Was not sure if the body could learn to become more functional with exposure to it over time or at least lower your sleep requirements.

I'm alot like you described yourself Hrolfr. The only times in my life I ever remember sleeping "well" and routinely either involved marijuana/pills or very very long spouts of consistent physical activities (I did a little stretch as a bike messenger).

I have a feeling I won't be missing a wink of sleep over in France though. :D

training when sleep deprived will very much have an impact on your future ability to cope under similar circumstances. if your body and mind are conditioned to run/march x miles after a week of no sleeping then both your body AND mind will be able to cope much better with the added difficulties and will react in a less drastic way to the 'shock'

Your training in this way will obviously have to be at a lower intesity than your weekly routine, so your fitness will not improve by the same amount so the value might be off-set by the lack of 'normal' progress (if that makes sense?)

As a suggestion (and nothing more) I would suggest maybe doing ONE distance march after a couple of nights with no sleep, not to condition your body to it, but to give your mind an idea of how it will be.

I should point out that I am not and have not been to the legion in any way yet, so the suggestion is based purely on what i have picked up for myself and what i THINK is the best idea. If you cant cope with one night march after a couple of nights with minimal/no sleep then i guess the real thing will be even harder, and if you can not cope with that then you will need to work on it

[byerly_turk]

care to explain why it is unhelpful pagoda? If I have worked something out for myself and am in error I would really appreciate someone explaining to my why, to save future mistakes. Thank you in advance

[flash010]

turk mate you are going to try this shite i know you are what to do is go on a march for two days MIND FOOD AND WATER AND YOUR MOBILE PHONE
do the first leg all night stopping for 5 min brake every two or three hours take a ruck sac,
next day first breckkie bit of bread and jam coffee then march till diner time have some thing to eat stop for lets say half hour then march untill night time. theres 24 hours
your fecked sleepy and need a shower think you can keep going.


REMEMBER WE DO THIS SHIT WITH OUR SECTIONS NOT ALONE
AND THIS FORM DONT ENCORAGE ANY ONE TO TRY THIS
IT IS VERY UNSAFE TO DO SO AND CAN LEAD TO YOU DOING YOUR SELF DAMAGE.

thats all i have to say on this shit.
dont do any thing you hear on the form your self we had the best instructors in the world with us you dont

[byerly_turk]

turk mate you are going to try this shite i know you are what to do is go on a march for two days MIND FOOD AND WATER AND YOUR MOBILE PHONE
do the first leg all night stopping for 5 min brake every two or three hours take a ruck sac,
next day first breckkie bit of bread and jam coffee then march till diner time have some thing to eat stop for lets say half hour then march untill night time. theres 24 hours
your fecked sleepy and need a shower think you can keep going.


REMEMBER WE DO THIS SHIT WITH OUR SECTIONS NOT ALONE
AND THIS FORM DONT ENCORAGE ANY ONE TO TRY THIS
IT IS VERY UNSAFE TO DO SO AND CAN LEAD TO YOU DOING YOPUR SELF DAMAGE.

thats all i have to say on this shit.
dont do any thing you hear on the form your self we had the best instructors in the world with us you dont


I made it clear, more than clear, that I was only posting an opinion and that others would know more. I didnt suggest ANYTHING like you said, although you system above is pretty much what i will be doing (along the west highland way in Scotland, walked it plenty, although never with such intesity)

Im not sure if you are telling me off or just covering yourself :D but the guy was asking if conditioning works, and over time it does, I only said a way that would give him a brief idea of what he might face. I would guess that the only benefit he would get is knowing what he will face.

[Hroflr Grimm]

Flash may be a crazy scot (redundant term, never met a pict descendent that wasn't) and his english might be as easily understood as a pikey some days but he said some very key things there and I have to say one of the most critical was:

You don't do this shite alone.

[byerly_turk]

Flash, these pictures should be familiar to you? Walked the west highland way, rough camping in winter 2 years ago. can be dangerous , but not to anyone with half a brain. I appreciate that doing the same when goosed would be harder/more dangerous, but not really any more than spending a week in the highlands in winter. In either case, so long as you know your limits and prepare properly then you will be fine. simple things like pre-determined check-ins by phone so people are up to date with where you should be and where you last were, plenty fluids and a good map and compass. I have a shit load more photos if you are interested, and am planning on going again in a month or so as a final warm up for going to aubagne, if you want to come and buy me a beer in the drovers ;)



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[flash010]

yea its pretty bleak out there in winter no turk was not having a go and the warning was for kids like solford boy.
me and another ex legionnaire did ben navis one year and it was early spring there were guys coming down with trainers and tea shirts on.
you seem to have the right idea.
good luck m8 ;)

[byerly_turk]

yea its pretty bleak out there in winter no turk was not having a go and the warning was for kids like solford boy.
me and another ex legionnaire did ben navis one year and it was early spring there were guys coming down with trainers and tea shirts on.
you seem to have the right idea.
good luck m8 ;)

I did Nevis after the walk (finishes in fort william). Most tired i have ever been I think. Rough camped 5 nights and about 100 miles followed by a day trip up Nevis. 20 miles a day sounds not much, but in snow and on rough terrain it can be a killer.

thanks for the well wishes, just a little more prep work and then im off, cant wait :D

[flash010]

any one who thinks twenty mile is not much sould try it.
up theres like artic in winter lol:D

[corvee de chotte]

[Only registered and activated users can see links][/IMG][Only registered and activated users can see links][/quote]htlooks like a nice A summers day on the West Highland Way heres a pub on the way, [url][Only registered and activated users can see links]

[byerly_turk]

[Only registered and activated users can see links][/IMG][Only registered and activated users can see links] like a nice A summers day on the West Highland Way heres a pub on the way, [url][Only registered and activated users can see links][/QUOTE]

second pic is from near the top of conic hill looking onto loch lomond, hit by a blizzard :D

the drovers is great, I recomended it in the off topic forum to a guy on a motorbike tour in Scotland. The place near kept me alive last time I walked, roaring open fire and the best haggis neeps and tatties in the world :D